So lets talk about game balance and design once more. For the most part I am going to ignore balance, and simply suggest a way that it can be made easier.
Also, for the sake of simplicity I will discuss my current project.
My biggest gripe with pop 3.x and 4.0 is there is too much variation and not enough meaningful difference. I would like to motion for a standardization, and massive reduction in the number of soldiers for a few reasons. Firstly, it generates more individuality, and a greater feeling of satisfaction within upgrade paths. Leveling up a few citizens into imperial guardsmen should feel like you levelled yourself up, as if you became stronger, not just a different coat of paint and similar stats. Reduction of specialization trees will also create more diverse cultures and make balancing a much easier affair. The counterbalance to this reduction is larger gaps between unit ability, higher experience thresholds, and high upgrade cost.
Here Goes:
So Here is what I suggest:
Trees should now look like this.
Peasent/ Levy/ Whatever (all factions would have a similar version of this)
Medium infantry (Contains factional advantage, ie Melitine has spear and shield, chance of 2h spear)
From there we have further specialization. Either or.
Ranged cultural variant, melee cultural variant.
From there we have one more possible upgrade. Each faction should have a factional emphasis, and this is where we get the question, which faction has the best “blank.” The answer is simple, the one that is a tier 4 of that type, the melitine for example would probably get some sort of lancer here.
I know what you are thinking, what? each faction only has 5 different foot soldiers? Frankly it works better this way, so lets say they have levels to correspond with relative strength. The average player level hits around 30-35 so lets say we want a maxed player to be able to train those fourth tier troops, so that means tier 3 should logically be 30. I know what your thinking, holy hell thats a powerful soldier, and my response is yes, now we are talking.
So it looks like this
Peasent (10)
Factional infantry (20)
Faction Specific Ranged (30)
Faction Specific Melee (30)
Faction Ultimate (40)
I suggest something similar for nobles, nobles are not neccessarily the best of the best, and I think its kinda lame that they all have horses. Perhaps some factions should use mostly foot knights. The real difference between them and other troops isnt level, but apparel. Nobles have much better gear.
Noble (30)
Noble Ranged (35)
Noble Melee (35)
Ultimate Noble (40)
Unrelated Addition
Lord (45)
King (50)
Knight Hood Order (50)
I just reduced all factions down to 9 different units, the idea here is to make each faction as different as possible. Now we collect units to suit our needs. Also, as a resource repercussion the game gets much lighter, units are more identifiable, more valuable, and most important, more useful.
So lets discuss why. Currently, as an example we have melitine levy, melitine village, melitine watch, frontier, and imperial, and 2 kinds of horse in the entry level first 4 tiers.
Why? What are the differences here? I mean simply having a horse unit makes them unique, why make one poor one, and one horse the way you think they should be? Why not just make it twice as hard to get, and keep the powerful version. If each faction has a cultural bias in a certain area lets emphasize that, not just clutter the field with a million different units. Cut out the middle men and make units have a greater impact, when you lose an imperial guard you should feel that pain in the back of your mind. If you do it this way, it has an echo effect. Less resources, less things have to be made, that means there is room for other cool things like specialty spawns or knighthood orders.
So if I had my druthers, (and I dont) this is what the melitine would look like.
Name . Rank . What makes them unique from other factions.
Town Militia (1o) Early adaptation of shield, chance for 2h spear
Frontier Guard (20) Heavy Armor, chance for 2h spear
Imperial Guard (30) Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield, Chance for 2h spear
Imperial Bowman (30) Extremely Heavy Armor for Bowman, Chance for 2h spear
Melitine Lancer (40) Horse, Long Lance, Medium Armor, Strong Shield, Sword
Melitine Noble (30) Slightly weaker version of melitine lancer, faster horse.
Melitine Auxilla (35) Short Bow, stronger armor than most horse archers, sword, shield, few arrows.
Melitine Heavy Lancer (35) Better equipment than melitine lancer
Melitine Heavy Lancer (40) Heaviest non knighthood order lancer, very fast.
My point here is that the two things that melitine soldiers are supposed to be are represented here, well armored, and use of horses. They arent trying to be the best archers or horse archers, they simply are what they are. There are identifiable differences not only between the units in their own trees but very different from the trees of other cultures. Getting a handfull of imperial lancers should indicate a sense of pride and awe as they cut through enemy lines. We do not need a ton of different types of horse units to show that.
In conclusion I would like to summarize my points. Reduce total number of factional units to 9 each meaning 36 factional units, and if we share armor among the bottom tier its really 30. I would like there to be an incredible amount of variety here, among those thirty. The excess resources will be spent on minor factions and specialty spawns. Troop upgrades will become more meaningful. Balance becomes much easier due to use of archetypes, since there will be one best this or one best that. Lastly I will get off my horse, this is about my druthers and is by no means a declaration, simply an explanation of how things would be in my mod. I will continue to make armor however, whoever, sees fit. I just couldnt sleep and this was on my mind. Cheers. Im out, sorry for any and all typos.
Also, for the sake of simplicity I will discuss my current project.
My biggest gripe with pop 3.x and 4.0 is there is too much variation and not enough meaningful difference. I would like to motion for a standardization, and massive reduction in the number of soldiers for a few reasons. Firstly, it generates more individuality, and a greater feeling of satisfaction within upgrade paths. Leveling up a few citizens into imperial guardsmen should feel like you levelled yourself up, as if you became stronger, not just a different coat of paint and similar stats. Reduction of specialization trees will also create more diverse cultures and make balancing a much easier affair. The counterbalance to this reduction is larger gaps between unit ability, higher experience thresholds, and high upgrade cost.
Here Goes:
So Here is what I suggest:
Trees should now look like this.
Peasent/ Levy/ Whatever (all factions would have a similar version of this)
Medium infantry (Contains factional advantage, ie Melitine has spear and shield, chance of 2h spear)
From there we have further specialization. Either or.
Ranged cultural variant, melee cultural variant.
From there we have one more possible upgrade. Each faction should have a factional emphasis, and this is where we get the question, which faction has the best “blank.” The answer is simple, the one that is a tier 4 of that type, the melitine for example would probably get some sort of lancer here.
I know what you are thinking, what? each faction only has 5 different foot soldiers? Frankly it works better this way, so lets say they have levels to correspond with relative strength. The average player level hits around 30-35 so lets say we want a maxed player to be able to train those fourth tier troops, so that means tier 3 should logically be 30. I know what your thinking, holy hell thats a powerful soldier, and my response is yes, now we are talking.
So it looks like this
Peasent (10)
Factional infantry (20)
Faction Specific Ranged (30)
Faction Specific Melee (30)
Faction Ultimate (40)
I suggest something similar for nobles, nobles are not neccessarily the best of the best, and I think its kinda lame that they all have horses. Perhaps some factions should use mostly foot knights. The real difference between them and other troops isnt level, but apparel. Nobles have much better gear.
Noble (30)
Noble Ranged (35)
Noble Melee (35)
Ultimate Noble (40)
Unrelated Addition
Lord (45)
King (50)
Knight Hood Order (50)
I just reduced all factions down to 9 different units, the idea here is to make each faction as different as possible. Now we collect units to suit our needs. Also, as a resource repercussion the game gets much lighter, units are more identifiable, more valuable, and most important, more useful.
So lets discuss why. Currently, as an example we have melitine levy, melitine village, melitine watch, frontier, and imperial, and 2 kinds of horse in the entry level first 4 tiers.
Why? What are the differences here? I mean simply having a horse unit makes them unique, why make one poor one, and one horse the way you think they should be? Why not just make it twice as hard to get, and keep the powerful version. If each faction has a cultural bias in a certain area lets emphasize that, not just clutter the field with a million different units. Cut out the middle men and make units have a greater impact, when you lose an imperial guard you should feel that pain in the back of your mind. If you do it this way, it has an echo effect. Less resources, less things have to be made, that means there is room for other cool things like specialty spawns or knighthood orders.
So if I had my druthers, (and I dont) this is what the melitine would look like.
Name . Rank . What makes them unique from other factions.
Town Militia (1o) Early adaptation of shield, chance for 2h spear
Frontier Guard (20) Heavy Armor, chance for 2h spear
Imperial Guard (30) Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield, Chance for 2h spear
Imperial Bowman (30) Extremely Heavy Armor for Bowman, Chance for 2h spear
Melitine Lancer (40) Horse, Long Lance, Medium Armor, Strong Shield, Sword
Melitine Noble (30) Slightly weaker version of melitine lancer, faster horse.
Melitine Auxilla (35) Short Bow, stronger armor than most horse archers, sword, shield, few arrows.
Melitine Heavy Lancer (35) Better equipment than melitine lancer
Melitine Heavy Lancer (40) Heaviest non knighthood order lancer, very fast.
My point here is that the two things that melitine soldiers are supposed to be are represented here, well armored, and use of horses. They arent trying to be the best archers or horse archers, they simply are what they are. There are identifiable differences not only between the units in their own trees but very different from the trees of other cultures. Getting a handfull of imperial lancers should indicate a sense of pride and awe as they cut through enemy lines. We do not need a ton of different types of horse units to show that.
In conclusion I would like to summarize my points. Reduce total number of factional units to 9 each meaning 36 factional units, and if we share armor among the bottom tier its really 30. I would like there to be an incredible amount of variety here, among those thirty. The excess resources will be spent on minor factions and specialty spawns. Troop upgrades will become more meaningful. Balance becomes much easier due to use of archetypes, since there will be one best this or one best that. Lastly I will get off my horse, this is about my druthers and is by no means a declaration, simply an explanation of how things would be in my mod. I will continue to make armor however, whoever, sees fit. I just couldnt sleep and this was on my mind. Cheers. Im out, sorry for any and all typos.
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